File #35 - Reading beneath the lines

[AshenCircle]

Prior to the release of their first full-length, I'm aware of only one Mastodon show outside the United States; in Winnipeg, Canada, in August of 2000. Other than that, a lot of their shows were clustered in the New England area and in NYC from what I know (although I'm not a fan myself, so don't take me as an authority). There were certainly shirts from the EP days, I know someone who had one.

This episode was excellent, it's very satisfying to see the threads starting to interweave like this. Interesting to get what seems to be a callback to MAG12, I'm curious about the Lightless Flame and I hope we get moe snippets relating to it soon.

[kea]

Did my "critical" listen and wow. This episode was pretty killer. Hopefully not literally.

Gerard Kaey and Jurgen Leitner

So can we assume this is how the Leitners that survived the destruction of his library in 1994 got out? I see references to Ex Altiora and The Bone Turner's Tale, as well as the book that might have caused Gerard's burn injuries, as Samwise has mentioned. If Gerard's on a mission to destroy all the other Leitners (as he did in MAG 4) then possibly that particular book decided to "bite back" as it were. I struggle with dates (bad History major) so I'm assuming some things here with my thoughts about the Kaeys.

-After the destruction of the Leitner library back in 1994, any remaining Leitners become hot property. Mary, as a book seller and bibliophile, wants to get her hands on one. She's tracked down the office of Leitner, maybe got a tip off from somewhere, and sends Gerard in to get one for her.

-Mary Kaey, I suspect, under the influence of "her" Leitner, removes her own skin and "dies". Gerard at this point decides to get rid of the remaining Leitners - presumably without his mother's knowledge. She's dead, but for whatever reason, is still kicking around. He also joins one of the two "eye" cults that show up every so often.

-There were clear reasons why the Magnus Institute didn't find all the books "some things are too powerful (may be misquoting here) to be owned." For a man with a collection of tomes on the occult, these seem to be some strong words. Another idea about how Ex Altiora ended up in the charity shop and The Bone Turner's tale got shoved through the returned books slot. I have to say, I used to handle all the non-library books that got returned to us by accident, and I'm very glad I don't anymore. We used to get strange pages covered in vaguely biblical prose shoved through the after-hours slot, which has taken on something rather sinister. Once again, TMA accurately reflects the struggles of working in the GLAM (Galleries, libraries, archives and museums) sector. Yes, this is an actual acronym that's used in official literature.

-It's very possible (and probable) that there are at least 10 of the really dangerous Leitners still about.

-For some reason I suspect the Lucas family's involved. They probably run in the sort of circles that would end up at the Reform Club...

On to the present day:

-I really hope that the package for Mr. Sims doesn't contain a severed body part.  Any thoughts on whether Breekon and Hope are connected to Angela in MAG: 14?

-Martin, you are going to get someone killed if you don't pull your head out. Surely you should be on fire extinguisher duty.

-Breekon and Hope seem to have an uncanny knack for delivering things at the right (?) time, don't they? They seem to know when Joshua Gillespie used some of the money in MAG:2 and when the calliope was played in MAG: 24. The worms finally getting into the Archives proper might be a "trigger" for the delivery of the package to Mr. Sims? Also, I may be reading far too much into this, but the comment about turning the recorder off seemed rather sinister.

-Gertrude Robinson definitely had a plan with leaving the archives in the state of disarray she did, right? She was perhaps trying to hide something from someone but hoping that they'd put the pieces together after she met her end. I reckon she had read the statement regarding her death, and knowing she could do nothing about it, chucked it in with the other stuff. Perhaps she arranged the delivery of the package to Mr. Sims.

There. I feel like a proper forum member now that I have done a massive post about the meta, complete with theories that may be proved wrong in the last 5 episodes.  Do I get a complimentary fire extinguisher?

[cannonlongshot]

*passes kea tinfoil hat and red string*

Also, the exact wording of Prentiss's warning to Martin was "you will want to see it when the Archivist's Crimson Fate arrives". Martin is the one who is there when the package arrived. So I'm going for "The Archivist's Crimson Fate" to be a painting that Jane made when she was fully human that she thought Johnathan would like.
(I think that's my most insane theory ever...)

[spooniermist]

I dunno about complementary fire extinguisher, but you can expect your honorary silver, black headed worm under your bedroom door any day now!

Interesting thoughts on The Kaeys. What you said kinda makes sense, actually. That Mary heard about the Leitner books and started trying to collect them, but they ended up with her dying and her son decided to destroy the rest.



I also think the idea that Gertrude is hiding something in the archives to be a possibility. There was something that Sims said at the start of MAG 32(?): The one with the Tundra ship, where he said that some of the cases just wouldn't record digitally so he had to use the tape recorder. I wonder if there's something super natural with these specific tapes that leads to them corrupting digital copies

[spooniermist]

Sept 8, 2016 22:30:40 GMT cannonlongshot said:

*passes kea tinfoil hat and red string*

Also, the exact wording of Prentiss's warning to Martin was "you will want to see it when the Archivist's Crimson Fate arrives". Martin is the one who is there when the package arrived. So I'm going for "The Archivist's Crimson Fate" to be a painting that Jane made when she was fully human that she thought Johnathan would like.
(I think that's my most insane theory ever...)

When I was thinking about my hub-world idea, I tried to fit in the gooey red stuff was some kind of red syrup or strawberry jam. Then I decided that if had enough of TMA for the day

[kea]

Sept 8, 2016 23:06:12 GMT spooniermist said:

I dunno about complementary fire extinguisher, but you can expect your honorary silver, black headed worm under your bedroom door any day now!

Interesting thoughts on The Kaeys. What you said kinda makes sense, actually. That Mary heard about the Leitner books and started trying to collect them, but they ended up with her dying and her son decided to destroy the rest.

Well, I've always wanted to be loved. I'm sure I can find an ointment for the itching. (Too far?)

I also remember that the Kaeys are descendants of Wilhelm von Closen, who has a connection to mysterious books. So the wiki says: "the book appeared to be in arabic (possible sanskrit?)." If it's the same book as Mary's, then she has reason to believe it was hers - perhaps Leitner acquired it off her family at some point, then decided to stick it underground. Gerard seemed to know what he was looking for. Then there's that whole open eye on the walls of the tomb - the same as the painting on the wall of pinhole books. 

The flipside of this is that I'm sure Albrecht von Closen would have mentioned the book's properties in his letter. 

[AshenCircle]

So, as much as each of these "hubs" relates to a dimension - an otherworld of sorts - it seems a very reasonable assumption that it also relates to one of Leitner's grimoires. I know one of the passages led to a room full of books, but I think the connection is deeper than that; the hot passage Harold stumbled into by mistake seems so likely to be connected to the unnamed book from MAG12 that I find it hard to believe it's all coincidence. Add to that the fact that he describes feeling as though he might fall into one of them, much like Swain with the woodcuts in Ex Altiora.

So, if this is the case, given that there was a room full of cobwebs down there, might the place the Hive comes from also have a correlating book? Does Ex Altiora relate to the devouring sky from MAG21 (this seems extremely likely, but if there's an eplicit link I've missed it). Perhaps there's one for wherever the Church of the Divine Host... are, or go. Ugh. *shudders*

But enough rambling. Who or what was the figure Harold saw down there in the dark, which he sensed wished him harm?

I used to handle all the non-library books that got returned to us by accident, and I'm very glad I don't anymore. We used to get strange pages covered in vaguely biblical prose shoved through the after-hours slot, which has taken on something rather sinister.

Yowzer. That's creepy. I can only imagine that would freak you out good and proper if it happened to you now as a TMA listener.

Edit: regarding Mastodon, it occured to me to check where they toured in 2001 since we've had only a single case file in America (MAG31) and there might be a connection I was missing - had the Kaeys been in our whistling wolfman's hunting grounds? Probably not, though, since he was in Virginia, and the nearest Mastodon gig on public record* that fits the timeline of Gerard wearing their shirt when he did was in Tennessee. Still feasibly close, I thought, but it was over on the western side of the state, in Memphis, while the... "hunting accident" we know about happened in Blue Ridge, square in the centre of Virginia. Then again, that incident took place in 2010, and there's nothing to say the Blue Ridge beastie hasn't moved around. Still, it seems like a dead end.

^{*public record so far as cursory internet searches are concerned. I'm sure there's more to know if you know the right people.}

[kea]

Sept 9, 2016 3:10:26 GMT AshenCircle said:

I used to handle all the non-library books that got returned to us by accident, and I'm very glad I don't anymore. We used to get strange pages covered in vaguely biblical prose shoved through the after-hours slot, which has taken on something rather sinister.

Yowzer. That's creepy. I can only imagine that would freak you out good and proper if it happened to you now as a TMA listener.

Working in a public library gives you a very high tolerance for weird. Still a bit creepy though.

I'm guessing the figure that meant him harm may be the Bone Turner. Or possibly our friend from the Schwarzwald . Or more likely, I'm just guessing.

I'd never considered the possibility that the worms could be related to Leitner. Interesting thought.

[missnash]

I love this forum. I've just listened to the episode and then came straight on here so to share in my fear with the other people who understand...

JEEEZE LOUISE. I jumped out of my skin. You lead me into a false sense of security with Jonny being almost humorous with his 'No Pun Intended!' THEN YOU GOT ME. YOU GOT ME SO GOOD. I was almost too frightened to listen to the radio silence (and worm sounds) and then the delivery men... WHAT ARE THEY DELIVERING?! WHAT DID I MISS!?!

I need to sit down. Outside. In some daylight.

I'm thinking of doing a re-listen in preparation for the finale, I don't know if my nerves will handle it though! I want to listen to it after reading all the amazing theories to see if it adds anything else to it.

URH. I Need a shower too.

[spooniermist]

Sept 9, 2016 3:10:26 GMT AshenCircle said:

So, if this is the case, given that there was a room full of cobwebs down there, might the place the Hive comes from also have a correlating book? Does Ex Altiora relate to the devouring sky from MAG21 (this seems extremely likely, but if there's an eplicit link I've missed it). Perhaps there's one for wherever the Church of the Divine Host... are, or go. Ugh. *shudders*

Wait! Has anyone played Myst? Maybe it's like that! All the books link to different dimensions! And and and Gerard was looking for pages to reconstruct the book that links back to his own world, and Michael is Atrus and and and-

...okay I need to stop now. That is clearly just rubbish.

[kea]

Sept 9, 2016 9:08:49 GMT spooniermist said:

Sept 9, 2016 3:10:26 GMT AshenCircle said:

So, if this is the case, given that there was a room full of cobwebs down there, might the place the Hive comes from also have a correlating book? Does Ex Altiora relate to the devouring sky from MAG21 (this seems extremely likely, but if there's an eplicit link I've missed it). Perhaps there's one for wherever the Church of the Divine Host... are, or go. Ugh. *shudders*

Wait! Has anyone played Myst? Maybe it's like that! All the books link to different dimensions! And and and Gerard was looking for pages to reconstruct the book that links back to his own world, and Michael is Atrus and and and-

...okay I need to stop now. That is clearly just rubbish.

I sometimes wonder if the RQ team find our bizarre speculating amusing or painful

[Alex Newall]

Sept 9, 2016 9:47:15 GMT kea said:

Sept 9, 2016 9:08:49 GMT spooniermist said:

Wait! Has anyone played Myst? Maybe it's like that! All the books link to different dimensions! And and and Gerard was looking for pages to reconstruct the book that links back to his own world, and Michael is Atrus and and and-

...okay I need to stop now. That is clearly just rubbish.

I sometimes wonder if the RQ team find our bizarre speculating amusing or painful

I'm just glad I invested in a forum with no maximum post length.

[Jonny]

Sept 9, 2016 9:47:15 GMT kea said:

I sometimes wonder if the RQ team find our bizarre speculating amusing or painful

Often intriguing, sometimes amusing, occasionally useful and, in a small handful of cases, slightly baffling. Never painful. Always very gratifying.

[Kitsune]

In MAG4: Pageturner, wasn't it only when the book passed under a certain shadow / threshold that the bones fell out? For some reason, that really stuck out to me on my first listen to MAG4, which made me think there was some sort of veil that this book had been crossing in the entire underground caverns system -- or it was itself a big ol' magic shadow. I could be wrong, though.

[cannonlongshot]

Sept 13, 2016 4:05:22 GMT Kitsune said:

In MAG4: Pageturner, wasn't it only when the book passed under a certain shadow / threshold that the bones fell out? For some reason, that really stuck out to me on my first listen to MAG4, which made me think there was some sort of veil that this book had been crossing in the entire underground caverns system -- or it was itself a big ol' magic shadow. I could be wrong, though.

I don't recall how the passageways were lit - I think they might have not been - I was assuming the bones were falling out as Gerard passed the gaps between the patches of light created by the torches that they brought in with them.

Jonny Sept 9, 2016 7:38:30 GMT 1 Jonny said:

Often intriguing, sometimes amusing, occasionally useful and, in a small handful of cases, slightly baffling. Never painful. Always very gratifying.

I'm pretty convinced this is some sort of code. I'm guessing an anagram.