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Post by Oneiros on Aug 31, 2017 6:50:13 GMT
We have reached the end of the tunnel; We have heard the voice of the darkness; We have seen the power of words together And everyone has one way out. Welcome to the Season 2 finale, folks. We hope you've enjoyed the twists and turns taken as the Archivist et al come to grips with the vastness of what's out there and the smaller mysteries closer to home. Hopefully you haven't run of red string or corkboards - supplies are plentiful here on the forums So, there's a lot to unpack here as we start to learn of the cosmic horror that underlies the supernatural fabric of the Magnus-verse and hazarding guesses as to what The Unknowing might be. Can we see the statements that led up to here in a different light? Armed with this knowledge (and a trusty pipe), how do we go forward? And what of the fates of our assistants? Especially since there seems to be such casual disregard for anyone adjacent, do we now fear what may become of Tim & Martin? Or shall we trust that Elias knows what's best for all concerned? Thoughts? Theories? Wild stabs (or brutal smashes - my was that visceral!) in the dark? Also, we will be doing a S2 Q&A, so if you have any burning Qs for Jonny or Alex - please post them IN THE Q&A THREAD.
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Post by spooniermist on Aug 31, 2017 7:19:22 GMT
I didn't enjoy the season 1 finale too much. The death of Jane Prentiss left so many questions, and I didn't find the actual finale as engrossing as any of the other episodes.
Holy crap, what a turn around for season 2! An exposition dump of things that we suspected, of new things, and of plenty of revelations! I've only listened to it once (just about to binge it on my way into work), but there is so much to unpick.
The main thing for me are these Entities, these beings beyond creation. It's amazing how one episode can totally change your perception of all the other episodes, from the words of the books having power, to those people/creatures we previously thought of as worshippers of some demons.
Let's start with the books: clearly they have a power of their own, probably supplied by their respective Entity. It's fascinating to me that just reading these books, not even aloud, can change reality. What does that mean for Ex Altiora? What did the reader change in the world when he read it (Dominic Swain? It's been a long time since I listened to that one)? What about the Bone Turner's Tale? Did just reading that give Jerard powers, or did it let something inhabit him? In 'Lost Johns' Cave', did someone use the book that Leitner used here, or was it some other entity or Entity at play?
I can't get over the Entities and their affect on the lore as we know it. It reminds me of two things: the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40k, beings born from emotion who influence the real world for their own unknowable ends; and the Eldrazi from Magic: the Gathering, 3 Eldrich abominations who are just the manifestation of some larger, unknowable being.
I wonder how many Entities there are? Must be at least 3: the watcher, or something, that 'owns' the Archive; then the two warring factions. I'm guessing an entity of Pain (fire, meat), Isolation, Containment (spiders) at least. Someone on Reddit cited as many as 13, but I'm not sure.
I feel so sorry for Martin and Tim. The way Leitner explains that all Gertrude's assistants died in horrible ways makes me fear for them. I'm surprised Michael let them go (and they met Helen! That is truely tragic), and I wonder what this end game is.
Finally, Sims is on the run. It's going to make the next season super interesting, as I can imagine we'll get him and Melanie King wombling around monster hunting. Shame we won't get more Gertrude tapes, I really think that they held the key. I hope Sims has picked them up!
On a non-canon note, is the actor who played Lietner played my Jonny's father or uncle? If so, that's pretty cool!
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Post by dangerfield on Aug 31, 2017 7:21:41 GMT
Spooniermist, that was also my question - are Gertrude and Leitner Jonny's mum and dad?!
I think I need to listen again before I have any solid thoughts on content.
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Post by spooniermist on Aug 31, 2017 8:18:29 GMT
Spooniermist, that was also my question - are Gertrude and Leitner Jonny's mum and dad?! I am very very sure that Gertrude is Jonny's mother. Which is hilarious, because she is one of the best voice actors in the series. I mean, it makes sense: why would you pay for actors when you are related to several very good voice actors.
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Post by Alex Newall on Aug 31, 2017 8:46:07 GMT
Can confirm. Jonny's mum and dad are Gertrude and Leitner respectively. How cool is that!?
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Post by Oneiros on Aug 31, 2017 8:59:15 GMT
Spooniermist, that was also my question - are Gertrude and Leitner Jonny's mum and dad?! I am very very sure that Gertrude is Jonny's mother. Which is hilarious, because she is one of the best voice actors in the series. I mean, it makes sense: why would you pay for actors when you are related to several very good voice actors. We were very much looking forward to seeing the fans' reactions to that reveal :-)
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Post by Oneiros on Aug 31, 2017 9:03:59 GMT
Did just reading that give Jerard powers, or did it let something inhabit him? I should probably get round to doing a proper Dramatis Personae while I'm doing the transcripts. The prominence of Jared (Hopworth) and Gerard (Keay) makes getting spelling right a key to avoiding confusion :-)
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Post by cannonlongshot on Aug 31, 2017 9:30:14 GMT
Finally, Sims is on the run. It's going to make the next season super interesting, as I can imagine we'll get him and Melanie King wombling around monster hunting. Until you said this I didn't realise how much I'm looking forward to the bickering.
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Post by dangerfield on Aug 31, 2017 10:26:43 GMT
Can confirm. Jonny's mum and dad are Gertrude and Leitner respectively. How cool is that!? Best twist yet.
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Post by archangel1313 on Aug 31, 2017 12:58:47 GMT
Let's start with the books: clearly they have a power of their own, probably supplied by their respective Entity. It's fascinating to me that just reading these books, not even aloud, can change reality. What does that mean for Ex Altiora? What did the reader change in the world when he read it (Dominic Swain? It's been a long time since I listened to that one)? What about the Bone Turner's Tale? Did just reading that give Jerard powers, or did it let something inhabit him? In 'Lost Johns' Cave', did someone use the book that Leitner used here, or was it some other entity or Entity at play? I think that since these beings are as much location as being, that there are places on, or in the earth that have certain thematic or hermetic similarities to their realms. This has been seen in Lost Johns' Cave where someone accidentally fell through, or in the slaughter house and the endless corridor where someone was pushed. The books, however, seem to be the opposite, they bring a piece of those places to this material world, and change it in a small way to the world they came from. It appears that smirk has the patronage of whichever being controls lost johns cave, and passed it on to some of his students judging by what happened in the work house. it would also explain what Jonathan meant when he said that the books change the people as well as reality. I wonder how Gerard Kaey avoided one patron or another. Also, with Leitner explaining his motivations, I cant help but think that Johann von Wurtumberg was perhaps attempting the same thing? keeping the books hidden away in his tomb. I would say that its more indication that there the same person but I think recent events have thoroughly shattered that theory
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kea
Member of the Order of the Quill
Posts: 136
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Post by kea on Sept 1, 2017 1:43:51 GMT
Did just reading that give Jerard powers, or did it let something inhabit him? I should probably get round to doing a proper Dramatis Personae while I'm doing the transcripts. The prominence of Jared (Hopworth) and Gerard (Keay) makes getting spelling right a key to avoiding confusion :-) For some reason I've been spelling "Keay" as "Kaey" for ages. My spelling aside, what an absolute barnstormer of a finale. There were things I'd guessed (Elias and his affiliations) and things I didn't (OH **** IT'S LEITNER). We have answers for some things but not for everything. Guest VAs have been amazing, but props to Ben for managing to convey such menace without ever really raising his voice. Also the murder noises were disturbingly...meaty.
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Post by cannonlongshot on Sept 1, 2017 9:34:30 GMT
For some reason I've been spelling "Keay" as "Kaey" for ages. Bloody hell... back to the wiki I go. Why can't I get this straight in my head?! Also, it's interesting to see how, if Mary is the descendent of von Closen, her antagonism with Gertrude is more understandable in light of recent revelations regarding Ms. Robinson's true allegiances...
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Post by spooniermist on Sept 1, 2017 10:09:48 GMT
Also, it's interesting to see how, if Mary is the descendent of von Closen, her antagonism with Gertrude is more understandable in light of recent revelations regarding Ms. Robinson's true allegiances... Gertrude's true allegiances?
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Post by cannonlongshot on Sept 1, 2017 14:04:45 GMT
Also, it's interesting to see how, if Mary is the descendent of von Closen, her antagonism with Gertrude is more understandable in light of recent revelations regarding Ms. Robinson's true allegiances... Gertrude's true allegiances? i.e. "Not the Institute"
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