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Post by Oneiros on Apr 6, 2017 7:58:12 GMT
Well, that wasn't quite the return to Oxford I was expecting... it seems Hill Top Road might be a nexus for the strange and confusing. Those looking for back referenced cases should check out MAG008 (Burned Out) for Ivo Lensik and MAG019/20 (Confession/Desecrated Host) for Father Burroughs. And kudos, one more, to Jonny for another great double-edged title. So, we get some more info on Raymond Fielding and find out why reoffending rates from those in his care were so low, Agnes remains mysterious and some, by now, very familiar imagery makes reappearances. Though I suppose we should count ourselves very lucky that Ronald Sinclair manage to shake off the lethargy and make it out of there to make his statement. That said, we do seem to have stumbled across Spider Central though they do appear to have moved on by the time reconstruction starts. I think I'm gonna put down my red string now - the web is starting to seem all too real and my spider sense is tingling...  |
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Post by cannonlongshot on Apr 6, 2017 8:36:07 GMT
Honestly, someone suggested that the box in MAG8 was linked to the table and I thought that was grasping at straws - sure shows me!
Also, no wonder Graham Folger wasn't able to track down the box for the centre of his table - it was buried beneath a tree in Oxford until 2006, then smashed up and thrown into a skip.
Relistening to 8, I have some ideas - I think we might be dealing with THREE supernatural powers intersecting at Hilltop Road.
- Father Burroughs brings with him the demon that was possessing him (Mentis, I think?)
- Raymond appears to be aligned with some force of spiders, rot, decay... and possibly also linked to the fractal geometry of the table. It tends to make people move without conscious thought, and Ivo Lensik brings the tree down without a whole lot of rationale for his actions.
- Agnes, I think, has some kind of affinity for fire. The point at which she kisses Ronald Sinclair is also the point that appears to feel burned or branded when him and Raymond meet for the last time, which has similarities to how Burroughs is able to throw off the heat when he visits the house. ("This one is not for you, he is marked..."). I think we might have misunderstood her - her apparent demise by a fire, as well as the nasty rumours spread about her, take on a tragic tone if we assume that Raymond is in fact the malevolent one.
What I think happened is that Mentis (Burrough's demon) is purely incidental, and wandered in to a spiritual warzone between Agnes and Raymond, or at least the powers controlling them.
Mini-Timeline Time!
> Agnes makes the first move in the conflict by "marking" Robert Sinclair, making him able to escape from Raymond.
> There's a fire consuming the Fielding house on Hilltop Road. At a guess, this is when the conflict happens - Agnes escapes having sealed the spirit of Raymond beneath the tree, and taking Raymond's right hand with her.
> The spirit (for want of a better term) of Agnes tries to get a grip on Ivo when he was working there alone, but is interrupted by Burroughs arriving (along with Mentis entering the house).
> Ivo leaves the house and reaches the tree in the back yard.
> Having failed to influence Ivo, Agnes attempts to influence Burroughs, and is rebuked by Mentis.
> Given this chance, the spirit of Raymond convinces Ivo Lensik to bring down the tree and open the box buried beneath it.
> Later that night, Agnes is killed. She appears to have hanged herself, possibly against her conscious control?
We know the tree existed already, so this box beneath the tree could have been sealed there afterwards, or maybe is the true form of that which appeared in the Hilltop Road basement.
Ivo Lensik's uncle seems like he could be an interesting witness, wonder if we'll ever hear from him?
Ivo mentions seeing brown pigtails when working at Hillltop Road - given the last description of Raymond, are we sure it couldn't have been a brown coat?
A reminder before anyone ties the spiders to Prentiss: "Webs have a song of their own - but it is not the song of the Hive..."
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Post by cannonlongshot on Apr 6, 2017 8:40:08 GMT
A point taken from the Reddit discussion thread, it's worth noting that Graham apparently studied at Oxford - I really should have cottoned on that the box was likely to be linked to his table! *facepalm*
Edit: Not confirmed, but my calculations put the fire at Hilltop Road around 1970. For reference, late 1940s + 15 years puts Sinclair's statement at about '62, Agnes was 10 when she showed up during his 3 year stay, and was 18 when the fire happened.
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Post by spooniermist on Apr 6, 2017 11:59:07 GMT
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DoctorTOC
Travelling Wordsmith
Solving the puzzle, turning the key...
Posts: 49 
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Post by DoctorTOC on Apr 6, 2017 15:37:25 GMT
Feeling very smug now, since I first pointed out the possible connection between the table and the box :-) What I wasn't expecting was the connection to the spiders - I'd managed to forget the spiders coming out of the disintegrating apple when it was taken out of the box.
Having re-listened to this recently, I'm struck by the description of Graham Folger's ornate table, and the similarity to the patterns described on the outside of the box discovered by Ivo Lensik under the tree at Hilltop Road. A box about six inches square would fit quite neatly in the hole Amy Patel describes being in the middle of Graham's table, and the patterns on the table and the box sound almost identical. I'm loving the way this season is developing! |
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Post by iamjoe500 on Apr 6, 2017 16:46:08 GMT
What a great episode! I completely forgot about the box.
The spiders seem to be pretty good at mind control. Trevor Herbert encountered them because people kept leaving their beds in the middle of the night in MAG56. And all the way back in MAG16, Carlos Vittery sat frozen, and then was compelled to crush the spiders appearing in his apartment (and by now I think we can conclusively state his death was completely unrelated to Jane Prentiss squirming around in the basement). I don't think it's a coincidence that multiple entities keep converging in one place. War, I suppose, if we believe "Michael."
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Post by sz on Apr 6, 2017 16:47:51 GMT
Yesss, so many threads coming together! (like a web, perhaps?) In addition to the box from #8 being the center of the table from #3 (I KNEW it! I wonder what that piece having been destroyed means for the power of the table?), the power of compelling people to move and act without conscious intent is familiar from Trevor's story of the 'woman' filled with spiders in #56, and similar to the experience of moving 'as though guided by another hand' that Carlos Vittery described--and of course Vittery ended up in a similar state to the former delinquents in Raymond Fielding's basement office. I can only assume that the 'spider husks' that got Daisy Tonner sectioned (as related in #43) are connected with all this as well...
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Post by danae149 on Apr 6, 2017 17:55:15 GMT
Yesss, so many threads coming together! (like a web, perhaps?) In addition to the box from #8 being the center of the table from #3 (I KNEW it! I wonder what that piece having been destroyed means for the power of the table?), the power of compelling people to move and act without conscious intent is familiar from Trevor's story of the 'woman' filled with spiders in #56, and similar to the experience of moving 'as though guided by another hand' that Carlos Vittery described--and of course Vittery ended up in a similar state to the former delinquents in Raymond Fielding's basement office. I can only assume that the 'spider husks' that got Daisy Tonner sectioned (as related in #43) are connected with all this as well... This is completely out of left-field and kind of grasping at straws, but I wonder if the compulsion aspect isn't also related to what happened with the guy and the coffin in episode 2. The Breekon and Hope delivery men were the ones who delivered the fractal table to the institute and they also delivered a zippo with the image of a spiderweb design on it, so it could all be related somehow. And hats off to the Rusty crew for seriously creeping me out with this one. I am going to spend the day thinking about people filled with spider egg sacs... |
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Post by isengrim on Apr 7, 2017 19:07:39 GMT
So, some quick random thoughs about this episode --
Agnes is a name that means "holy" but it also calls to mind "Agni" the Hindu god of fire. What with her seeming association with heat. And maybe it's a stretch but I find myself connecting her with Asag and the lightless flame as well. Maybe Asag happens to be on the same "slightly more benevolent" side that Michael is. Our last encounter with them, if I recall, was tied to an attempt to destroy the flesh hive.
Also spiders and the table... Is it me or is the description of the thing that slipped in Graham's window before Not-Graham appeared sounding more and more like a way to describe a giant spider's leg? Also, if the "not" people are spiders (or spider-connected), maybe that distortion we hear when Not-Sasha is recorded is the "song" Prentiss was talking about? But again, maybe I'm reaching.
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Post by cannonlongshot on Apr 8, 2017 10:53:42 GMT
So, some quick random thoughs about this episode -- Agnes is a name that means "holy" but it also calls to mind "Agni" the Hindu god of fire. What with her seeming association with heat. And maybe it's a stretch but I find myself connecting her with Asag and the lightless flame as well. Maybe Asag happens to be on the same "slightly more benevolent" side that Michael is. Our last encounter with them, if I recall, was tied to an attempt to destroy the flesh hive. Also spiders and the table... Is it me or is the description of the thing that slipped in Graham's window before Not-Graham appeared sounding more and more like a way to describe a giant spider's leg? Also, if the "not" people are spiders (or spider-connected), maybe that distortion we hear when Not-Sasha is recorded is the "song" Prentiss was talking about? But again, maybe I'm reaching. Writing down "slightly more benvolent" for later on when it becomes blatantly untrue :L Good call on a spider leg! I did always think that the Angler Fish and the Drainpipe creature were, bar none, the most "non-standard" monsters in the series. All other things tend to have some basis in traditional horror (the "uncanny valley" for Michael, vampires, werewolves) but those two always seemed very out-there. |
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Post by isengrim on Apr 9, 2017 2:53:46 GMT
To be fair, I think it's already been proven blatantly untrue in Michael's case. But at least he and Agnes are occasionally helpful. I suppose we can start counting the episodes until Agnes does something more openly sinister.
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