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Post by Oneiros on Feb 22, 2018 8:38:30 GMT
OR: "A degree of nihilism"
Running swiftly on from last week, we get Georgie's own statement... an encounter with a figure of death who imparts the ennui of existence. Steals your fear of the end because, when it comes down to it, everything is already like the end, so there's no point. The horror of a bleak, unimportant, continuance...
And yet, Georgie survived the encounter. Just to provide the Archivist with another data point, another touchstone?
I have to say, from a personal perspective, this episode really hit home for me, not just with the chilling futility of the power's message (juxtaposed really well against the concept of student activism) but Georgie's personal account of going to an esteemed university as a student from a poorer background, that impostor syndrome that colours your interactions with folk you know are more privileged, more 'experienced'. Also, chuckling at Alex's description of brains in formaldehyde - I wouldn't have said tuna, per se, but there's definitely a fishy odour to them.
So, what of Georgie and John now? Where do they go from here?
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 22, 2018 16:45:54 GMT
This was very well done again. It's impressive that Georgie was able to struggle to her feet again after this encounter. A bit of TMI again behind the cut. After my mother died my feelings were completely gone, a security measure of the brain that was the only way for me to go on and take care of everything that had to be done. Now, with my heavy depression the feeling of numbness is there most of the time too, but different than back then. Georgie had it a lot worse, all feelings leeched out of her, having to relearn everything. Makes me wonder how much of it actually came back to her and how much is 'only' learnt to act as if? That fear was taken away completely is interesting. A clue that the End also feeds on fear and is just as malicious as the other powers. |
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liraven
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Post by liraven on Feb 24, 2018 0:10:51 GMT
This was a great episode.  Excellent voice acting, as always! It's impressive that Georgie was able to struggle to her feet again after this encounter. A bit of TMI again behind the cut. I'm glad Georgie found her way back too. Oversharing #1: I'm so sorry to hear about your mom.  Hang in there! The descriptions in this episode hit home for me also. Especially when Alex just sort of shrugs and sinks slowly to the floor. I've heard people describe depression as sadness, but to me it has always felt more like emptiness or, as you said, numbness. I have to say, from a personal perspective, this episode really hit home for me, not just with the chilling futility of the power's message (juxtaposed really well against the concept of student activism) but Georgie's personal account of going to an esteemed university as a student from a poorer background, that impostor syndrome that colours your interactions with folk you know are more privileged, more 'experienced'. I definitely related to that part of the story too, but more from a job aspect. Oversharing #2: Even after working for years as a computer programmer, there are days I'm utterly convinced everyone else is a genius and it's only a matter of time before someone realizes I'm not. Especially when playing the ever popular 'fit as many acronyms as possible into a single sentence' game. I swear one of my managers completely made up a word during a meeting once. Everyone just nodded wisely.  That fear was taken away completely is interesting. A clue that the End also feeds on fear and is just as malicious as the other powers. Yeah, that seems to be a theme with the powers. Why snack on human emotion though? Also, why does Georgie have a podcast about ghosts? I wouldn't think she'd believe in them, not after her experience with the End. Is it just a safe topic because she knows ghosts can't be real? Or is she interested in trying to find out what's really behind the hauntings? I hope she helps Jon with his investigation. Saving the world is a hard quest to pass up. |
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 24, 2018 9:00:59 GMT
That fear was taken away completely is interesting. A clue that the End also feeds on fear and is just as malicious as the other powers. Yeah, that seems to be a theme with the powers. Why snack on human emotion though? Also, why does Georgie have a podcast about ghosts? I wouldn't think she'd believe in them, not after her experience with the End. Is it just a safe topic because she knows ghosts can't be real? Or is she interested in trying to find out what's really behind the hauntings? I hope she helps Jon with his investigation. Saving the world is a hard quest to pass up. Thank you for the condolences. It has been a few years now, but...well. *sends you a big e-hug for your own troubles*
I guess the overwhelming sadness is kinda the first stages and after that, once it gets worse, the numbness/emptiness begins. In a way once this happens it often seems easier to bear, but on the other hand it makes it harder to actually do stuff and connect to people. At least that's how I perceive it. Hehe, that's the question, isn't it?  Then again, do cosmic horrors need a specific reason other than their hunger for it? I don't need any more reason for putting on the feedbag than 'it tastes great'. *OʍNOʍNOʍ - fear-ƨuƨʜi, my ʇɒvoɿiƚɘ dish!* XD My take on this is that Georgie searched for an explanation to what happened to her and the others. And to find out what kind of monsters are out there. She never had anything else to go on than the usual drivel about ghosts, hauntings and legends like Bigfoot and Co. before Jon told her about what he knows, though. I mean, if someone experiences a horrible event like her ghosts wouldn't sound implausible. Especially since the being that caused it was a dead person, which is usually attributed to a haunting soul that hasn't left yet. In a way she already did/does. First by letting him bum around on her couch without too much questions, then she fobbed off the police, gave Melanie the right infos, tried to regulate his watching-intake (however unsuccessfully). Somehow I think now that she knows what's really going on, she has a reasonable interest to help with the investigations as well. Devoid of fear or not, a world in the image of any of the powers is pretty undesirable. |
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liraven
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Post by liraven on Feb 25, 2018 7:29:55 GMT
Then again, do cosmic horrors need a specific reason other than their hunger for it? I don't need any more reason for putting on the feedbag than 'it tastes great'. *OʍNOʍNOʍ - fear-ƨuƨʜi, my ʇɒvoɿiƚɘ dish!* XD Ha ha, that seems like the most likely answer. It is a horror podcast after all so I'm probably reading too much into it. Then again, I originally assumed Jon and the others toted tape recorders around during life-threatening situations purely because the podcast is series of audio recordings. Kind of like how characters in found footage films stubbornly hold onto the camera when any sane person would drop it and pick up a freaking weapon instead. But now I think the Magnus folks kept the recorders due to influence from the Eye. Especially considering all the occasions when the recorders seem to turn on by themselves. So maybe there's more to the fear aspect as well? My take on this is that Georgie searched for an explanation to what happened to her and the others. And to find out what kind of monsters are out there... Somehow I think now that she knows what's really going on, she has a reasonable interest to help with the investigations as well. Devoid of fear or not, a world in the image of any of the powers is pretty undesirable. That makes sense. Melanie's ghost hunting eventually led her to real monsters too. Though she ended up tied to the Magnus Institute. Hopefully Georgie doesn't share that same fate even if she's helped Jon (and by extension Beholding?) already. I really hope Georgie doesn't die. Jon has enough allies now that I'm afraid they won't all make it through the season alive. |
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 25, 2018 10:55:07 GMT
It is a horror podcast after all so I'm probably reading too much into it.
Then again, I originally assumed Jon and the others toted tape recorders around during life-threatening situations purely because the podcast is series of audio recordings. Kind of like how characters in found footage films stubbornly hold onto the camera when any sane person would drop it and pick up a freaking weapon instead. But now I think the Magnus folks kept the recorders due to influence from the Eye. Especially considering all the occasions when the recorders seem to turn on by themselves. So maybe there's more to the fear aspect as well?
Regarding the recordings, I still firmly believe we, the listeners, are the Beholding. Made a small comment about this in the A Guest for Mr. Spider thread:
The recorders turning themselves on would make sense then, Beholding (we) wants to know what's going on. All the juicy gossip we can get. XD
That makes sense. Melanie's ghost hunting eventually led her to real monsters too. Though she ended up tied to the Magnus Institute. Hopefully Georgie doesn't share that same fate even if she's helped Jon (and by extension Beholding?) already.
I really hope Georgie doesn't die. Jon has enough allies now that I'm afraid they won't all make it through the season alive. Yeah. By now the characters are all familiar enough that we would miss them, which is exactly the time for bad things happening to hit home. Horror podcast and all.  If anyone doesn't make it, my bet is on Tim, though. The poor guy tried everything he can to get away and his generally depressive seeming outlook makes him a prime suspect to be a Beholding victim instead of a servant. He's not giving the Eye enough to be useful. And Elias already stacked up on more little eyestalks so that a less functional one is likely in jeopardy. (And as said before in another thread, maybe the eye-monsters from the old Archives are made from people who tried to get away one time to often? Yikes.) |
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liraven
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Post by liraven on Feb 26, 2018 3:36:50 GMT
Regarding the recordings, I still firmly believe we, the listeners, are the Beholding... That's a very cool theory! I'd always assumed the audience is the next Archivist after Jon, but it could be the Eye following Jon's adventures. Though I guess it'd be more appropriate to call us the Ear. Please not Elias. I don't want Jon to completely lose his humanity. Gerard is fine since he's one of very few people who actually tried to help those marked by the powers. And he had way better gear than Jon's crew. Seriously, where's the eye tattoos and Beholding bling to protect these folks? I wonder if Gerard made those himself though. It sounds like he was pretty artistic - he did the painting of the eye in 'Page Turner'. Maybe Martin can whip up some protective poetry. Aw, I'll be so bummed if Tim dies. I love his responses during 'Nothing Beside Remains'. It's fun to hear from someone who's no longer shocked by the Institute's madness. As for being a victim of Beholding instead of a servant, I'm not sure I agree there. Victims seem to be quite fearful of the power that eventually consumes them. Tim doesn't seem afraid to me. More like resigned. He made the choice to return to work after his 'vacation' after all, and I think Elias would have fired him if he wasn't useful anymore. Of course I'm not ruling out the possibility he dies horribly during another attack or self-destructs on his own. Didn't one of Gertrude's assistants basically drink herself to death? |
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 26, 2018 5:44:42 GMT
I'd always assumed the audience is the next Archivist after Jon, but it could be the Eye following Jon's adventures. Though I guess it'd be more appropriate to call us the Ear. Oh, never thought about that possibility. Interesting too! Hehe, we're the Beholder with the jug ears. XD The question is whether Gerard actually was better than Elias, though? Elias is still quite a mysterious character in a lot of ways. And while he draws more and more people in, this doesn't necessarily mean he means them harm. He's obviously a very firm believer. Maybe he's convinced serving the Eye is best for those he snatches up? Delusions like that are rather common among fanatic believers, after all. In *12 First Aid Gerard saved the nurse from touching the Lightless Flame servant, but she was most likely marked by Beholding afterwards since she stated she felt watched later. AGREED! Beholding gear is damn overdue! Jon was still struggling to come to terms with what he is before, but now he really should follow Gerard's example and get himself some nice eye-tattoos! Protective poetry...that reminds me of Monty Python's funniest joke in the world. XD   *snerk* In gaming terms the Archive-lot are more like caster-types than anything else to me (or Warlocks, but most of them are too 'squishy' for that). Spell-book poetry casting FTW! XD Yeah. That goes for everyone in the crew, really. Well, he came back after he felt more and more like losing himself. And Jude Perry as well as Michael Crew confirmed that the powers feed on those (servants) who don't feed them. So it's either giving them what they want or... Can Elias fire them without killing them, if they are linked to him via contract? I don't remember hearing about Archive workers leaving any other way than feet first. There was never any mention of someone in retirement (doesn't mean there aren't, but still.) Because if this is the case, then Elias': "No, I don't think (firing you) that's necessary." can be translated to: "No, I don't think you should die yet." That's actually what I thought it was anyway. Um, I think they said she had a liver cirrhosis? It's likely she did drink herself to death, yes, although a cirrhosis can have other reasons as well. Didn't Mr. Sims answer in one Q&A to the question whether Martin will be ok with "No! No one will be ok. Especially not Martin!" I mean, that was likely a quip, but obviously none of them is save. We'll be worrying for any of them until it either happens or until the podcast is over. Crueler, but much more thrilling that way. |
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liraven
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Post by liraven on Feb 27, 2018 6:24:05 GMT
The question is whether Gerard actually was better than Elias, though? Elias is still quite a mysterious character in a lot of ways... Gerard helped Andrea Nunis in 'Lost in the Crowd'. At least I assume he's the guy with the long black hair from the cafe. He helped Dominic Swain in 'Page Turner' too though maybe that was more to protect his mother from the book. Then there's the nurse you mentioned from 'First Aid'. Gerard says something like: "Yes, for you better Beholding than Lightless Flame" but only after she made the decision to let him murder the other guy. So I think she was affected because she sided with Beholding (even if she didn't realize it) and he just acknowledged that. Gerard wasn't a saint, but he seemed to have a conscience at least. As for Elias... I believe you're correct that he doesn't necessarily mean any harm to his employees. However, in his own words, they are something to watch, know, and ultimately discard. I don't think he recruits people because he feels it's in their best interest but rather to control more chess pieces on the board. Also, he straight up murdered two people in cold blood, so there's that. On a paranoid side note, didn't Breekon & Hope deliver a lighter with a web design to Jon? Elias knows about that because he sent Tim to inquire about it at the end of 'Taken Ill'. So he knows Jon has an artifact from a power associated with traps and manipulation but doesn't warn him about it? Granted, the Web and Beholding seem to be allies so maybe it's for protection. Or maybe the last Archivist planned to burn down the Institute so Elias arranged for some extra insurance to keep his new Archivist in line. Regardless, that lighter is going to bug me until we know for sure what the heck it does and why it was sent to Jon. Daisy mentioned it during 'The Coming Storm' so he's still carrying it around. Excellent question! I think you're correct and firing = death. Maybe not immediately but possibly like what happened to Tim. In a more general sense, is it ever possible to stop serving a power without dying? Seems like once they claim someone there's no going back. You're right about the Martin comment, but I'm going to pretend I don't know about it anyway. La la la, everything will be fine! |
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Post by Mistery Donkey on Feb 27, 2018 6:57:31 GMT
I think the lighter is what made Jonathan rather suddently need to go outside and smoke a cigarette in episode 80, right before Elias shows up and kills Leitner. Maybe to protect Jonathan. Maybe so that Jonathan could not protect Leitner.
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Post by Oneiros on Feb 27, 2018 11:55:54 GMT
Spell-book poetry casting FTW! XD I love this idea! |
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 27, 2018 14:10:26 GMT
Gerard helped Andrea Nunis in 'Lost in the Crowd'. At least I assume he's the guy with the long black hair from the cafe. He helped Dominic Swain in 'Page Turner' too though maybe that was more to protect his mother from the book. Then there's the nurse you mentioned from 'First Aid'. Gerard says something like: "Yes, for you better Beholding than Lightless Flame" but only after she made the decision to let him murder the other guy. So I think she was affected because she sided with Beholding (even if she didn't realize it) and he just acknowledged that. Gerard wasn't a saint, but he seemed to have a conscience at least. Yes, I think that was him, the description fits. He helped a lot of people. But my thought is that this might have been more a part of the fight than being a good person or having a conscience. From what we know of the marked people they can serve their patrons in two ways. 1) feed them directly, depending on the power by collecting knowledge or things like destroying someone's live. And 2) by thwarting the plans of other powers and hinder or kill their servants. In this light everything Gerard did was one of these. Maybe this was the main idea behind it and helping the person in danger was more or less a lucky side-effect? In #35 Old Passages Gerard opened a hidden passage and got away with a book. The worker who followed him died and Gerard just ran away without caring about the others. And it takes a lot of crazy humanity-loss to skin the corpse of one's own mother. Mary said to Gertrude to wish her luck. I think this meant she planned to go against a servant or aspect of a power and lost. But from what we heard of the investigation and of Gerard's charges it seems that he performed the ritual to bind her spirit with the book Mary described in her statement. Which means he had to write on her skin in Sanskrit, then skinning her. She may have been dead, but still, this isn't something a person with a conscience would do. Even if he did it to have her around, this existence is most likely not nice because the End isn't a nice power. The man who was brought back by the doctor Mary took the book from begged her to be released. And we heard what happened to Georgie and the others while she was under it's influence. Yeah, he's quite evil, no denying that. I just think he's maybe not worse than Gerard. Mary did tell Gertrude rather disparagingly that she thinks Elias isn't doing much. This probably hinted at the fighting part of serving since she and her son, as well as Gertrude, did this. But if everyone dies if he dies, then actively going out fighting is risking the entire Archive and everyone bound to it. (A reason why I'm not certain this is normal Eye-custom, it's way too risky.) Murdering Gertrude and Leitner was cold-blooded, yes, but again - if destroying the Archive as they planned to do meant his and everyone else's death, then this could even be called self-defense and/or saving Jon & Co. They were already employed in the Archive after all. Still evil, but not for the sake of being evil. He also didn't warn anyone about Not!Sasha or Martin being trapped in his apartment. Or the Table. Guess this is his way of letting Jon find his own clues to level up. Are they allied? They at least don't seem to be all-out enemies. The Web and the Hive seem like they don't get on, though. I'm very curious to hear more about the relationships between the different powers. All is fine!  Spell-book poetry casting FTW! XD I love this idea! Poetry is your métier, I think you would be great at this! (Although, to my shame I have to admit, ever since The Sword in the Stone rhymes in spells inevitably remind me of this scene.) The most promising approach for the Archivist & Co. at the moment seems like throwing Jon at an enemy, screaming: " Tell me all about yourself!" While Daisy and/or Basira sneak up from behind to clobber them over the head. XD |
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liraven
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Post by liraven on Feb 28, 2018 6:35:30 GMT
I think the lighter is what made Jonathan rather suddently need to go outside and smoke a cigarette in episode 80, right before Elias shows up and kills Leitner. Maybe to protect Jonathan. Maybe so that Jonathan could not protect Leitner. Yes! Especially because Jon had quit smoking before then. I absolutely agree with you. We'll have to see if he gets the sudden urge to light up again at a critical moment. In #35 Old Passages Gerard opened a hidden passage and got away with a book. The worker who followed him died and Gerard just ran away without caring about the others. And it takes a lot of crazy humanity-loss to skin the corpse of one's own mother... Many good points! Forgot about some of those, so I went back and re-listened to a few of the older episodes. In our (totally important and completely relevant) side quest to discover whether Elias or Gerard is the most morally bankrupt Beholding character, I'm now very certain it must be... Neither. It's Mary freaking Keay. Good gracious that woman is terrifying! Now that we know more about the powers, Mag 62 was even more fun to listen to again. Mary said she and the Institute hadn't always 'seen eye to eye'. Oh Beholding puns. There are so many things I didn't fully appreciate the first time through. However, Mary's cheerful psychopathy makes it even more impressive Gerard made it to adulthood alive, much less ever reached out to help anyone. The woman committed her first murder at the tender age of nine and apparently felt no qualms sending her teenage son out to retrieve a Leitner book (Mag 35 describes Gerard as being in his 'late teens'). So I'm giving him a pass on just getting the heck out of there. Growing up Beholding is tough yo. Regarding Mary's death, in Mag 62 when talking about her Leitner book, she says: "After a lifetime, I know all its secrets, save one. And I have a pretty good idea about how to find that." The book is from the End, as you mentioned, so I think the ritual involved her own death. Heck, she overdosed on painkillers, for all we know she cut off pieces of her own skin. Also, she's walking around after that in Mag 4 seemingly without a problem. So yeah, skinning someone is really bad, but if Gerard did it at her behest? Still gross, but... not necessarily evil. All pure speculation on my part though! You may be right, but I just don't trust his intentions. For example, it seems like Elias hangs onto Gertrude's files out of concern for Jon's well being. Which has a grain of truth - reading the statements does take a physical toll. But something in them must reveal why Gertrude wanted to destroy the Archive. By carefully controlling Jon's access to them, Elias still serves his own goals. Again, he's not necessarily lying, but I think his concern for his employees is more feigned than genuine. Time will tell though! They aren't officially allied that we know of, but I assume Elias is on good terms with the Web. Jon and Sasha were alerted to Prentiss's attack after Jon tried to kill a spider on his shelf. Also, the worms moved slower inside the Archive than the tunnels, so some fans speculated it was from a web or trap slowing them down. Not a ton of evidence, but I doubt the spider was a coincidence at least. That's hilarious! Jon starts off with a crowd-control ability - good move! That gives Martin some time to cast a poetry spell. I think Daisy would totally fail at her sneak attempt though. That woman may carry a gun, but she fits better as melee DPS. Let Basira handle the ranged damage. Not sure about Tim since 'sarcastic commentary from the sidelines' isn't a class. Oh, maybe it is. Bard, perhaps? And... we have no healer. I don't suppose Melanie or Georgie have any medical training? |
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Post by hyoscyamus on Feb 28, 2018 7:30:46 GMT
I think the lighter is what made Jonathan rather suddently need to go outside and smoke a cigarette in episode 80, right before Elias shows up and kills Leitner. Maybe to protect Jonathan. Maybe so that Jonathan could not protect Leitner. Yes! Especially because Jon had quit smoking before then. I absolutely agree with you. We'll have to see if he gets the sudden urge to light up again at a critical moment. Interesting, never thought about that. Absolutely! I loved her VA, she made her sound so much more terrifying than the things we hear about her! Oh, I wouldn't advice trusting the man either! His and Beholding's goals evidently come first before anything and anyone. It's just not as plain and simple as it seems at first glance. Hehehe, 'sarcastic commentary from the sidelines' is actually a spell, Vicious Mockery. Has a 60 feet range, takes one action. The description is: You unleash a string of insults laced with subtle enchantments at a creature you can see within range. If the target can hear you (though it need not understand you), it must succeed on a wisdom saving throw or take 1d4 psychic damage and have disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn. XD 1.) Martin casts Mass Protective Poetry.2.) Daisy chucks Jon at the enemy.3.) Jon screams in terror, then catches himself just in time to cast Compel: "Why are you serving XXX?"4.) Tim aids Jon's Compel with Vicious Mockery: "Yeah, that's a lame-ass god. Others wouldn't have you? 5.) Enemy starts raving about his 'god'. 6.) Basira unleashes a sneak attack on the enemy. 7.) Melanie patches Jon up.  |
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Excellent voice acting, as always!
Hang in there! The descriptions in this episode hit home for me also. Especially when Alex just sort of shrugs and sinks slowly to the floor. I've heard people describe depression as sadness, but to me it has always felt more like emptiness or, as you said, numbness.
