File #37 - Flames of intrigue

[Oneiros]

Tempers seems to fraying within the walls of the Institute and no doubt there is much burning of the midnight oil taking place. And speaking of burning... we get more fire this week, though I doubt it's as cleansing as it was at the care home. And kudos to Samwise for allowing us to use elements of her story! 

Did anyone else jump to the right conclusion when the photo in the bottle was described? Just how many sinister forces are at work against the Institute? And is Mr Sims going to regret not taking Martin and Elias' "advice"? 

I'm definitely liking that we can hear how much stress the situation is taking on both John and Martin. The care taken over atmosphere and verisimilitude is beautiful, particularly as reinforced by the emotional breakdown of Jason North.

So... theories?

[cannonlongshot]

I thought it was a 50-50 between Mary Kaey and Gertrude Robinson ^.^ What with the similarities to the "lightless flame" from MAG12 and its connection to Gerard, I actually thought the former was more likely.

I gotta say, as Jonathan normally says, this is a case with a lot of dead ends. The only similarities to other cases are MAG12 and MAG8/MAG19 (though I think the location precludes Hilltop Road being relevant).

What is interesting is that this gives us the first actual link (though a tenuous one) between the opposing eye symbologies.

Gerard Kaey -> the "lightless flame" -> This ritual <- mysterious circumstances of Gertrude's death <- People's Church of the Divine Host.

(Also, it's only just occurred to me, have we ever noted the connection between "lightless flame" and the dark-worshipers of Hither Green?)

Edit: N'AWW upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Pine_Marten_BWC.JPG/1280px-Pine_Marten_BWC.JPG

[kea]

This was both terrified and heartbreaking at the same time and for the same reasons: Jason North was right. He didn't deserve any of it. He was just at the wrong place and did the wrong thing, completely by accident, and lost everything. Which seems to be a reoccurring theme in the statements - a lot of the time it's not about how good or bad you are, you break the rules which you don't know (and can't) and then what's happening breaks you. And you're helpless to stop it. The Institute is helpless to stop it. Jason North realised it and I think Jonathan is starting to realise/fear it as well. Most of the people who give the statements have all their certainties about the rational world brutally stripped away, and that's what's happening to Jonathan as the events in the statements link together and bleed into his life. In the first few episodes he could maintain his academic distance and with careful research refute parts of the statements and make a judgement call.

Now there is no distance between him and those elements of the world. The Institute didn't manage to protect Gertrude Robinson or Jason North - so what about him? All the way back in MAG:26 Sascha and Jonathan have a conversation about quitting - he tells her "you're not going to quit" or something to that effect. Now the ramifications of not quitting are starting to become apparent.

This episode was pretty much the best so far in terms of voice acting. You can hear the exhaustion and the dread bleeding over into his interactions with Martin and his follow up. And Jonny makes Jason's grief and horror very different to Jonathan's.

As for Theories? The lightness flame looks like it's made another appearance.

[Coil]

You've been immortalised samwise! Congratulations.

[cannonlongshot]

(The whispering tone of that shout out, as well as its unexpectedness, did do me a frighten)

[kea]

Sept 22, 2016 8:43:49 GMT cannonlongshot said:

I thought it was a 50-50 between Mary Kaey and Gertrude Robinson ^.^ What with the similarities to the "lightless flame" from MAG12 and its connection to Gerard, I actually thought the former was more likely.

I gotta say, as Jonathan normally says, this is a case with a lot of dead ends. The only similarities to other cases are MAG12 and MAG8/MAG19 (though I think the location precludes Hilltop Road being relevant).

What is interesting is that this gives us the first actual link (though a tenuous one) between the opposing eye symbologies.

Gerard Kaey -> the "lightless flame" -> This ritual <- mysterious circumstances of Gertrude's death <- People's Church of the Divine Host.

(Also, it's only just occurred to me, have we ever noted the connection between "lightless flame" and the dark-worshipers of Hither Green?)

Edit: N'AWW upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Pine_Marten_BWC.JPG/1280px-Pine_Marten_BWC.JPG

I don't think we had! I was re-listening to the Hither-Green episode and was reminded of it. 

That's a good visualization of those connections. Trying to work it out in my own head's been a bit of a struggle. 

[spooniermist]

What's with the lightless flame? I've only heard it mention of in one episode, the one with Gerard Keay?

[cannonlongshot]

Sept 22, 2016 10:23:30 GMT spooniermist said:

What's with the lightless flame? I've only heard it mention of in one episode, the one with Gerard Keay?

Yep, MAG 12: First Aid. It takes place about 2 years after this statement, and has Gerard Kaey and another unidentified man both admitted to hospital with burns. It also takes place about 4 years before Gertrude's death. Similarities include unnatural silences* and spontaneous boiling of water.

* Hoo boy, listening to MAG12 now and realising this gave me goosebumps..

[Samwise]

Sept 22, 2016 9:38:43 GMT cannonlongshot said:

(The whispering tone of that shout out, as well as its unexpectedness, did do me a frighten)

you're telling me! I was cycling home from work and just had Sims whispering my name in my earholes! I got such bad shivers down my spine. 

I loved that! you took a pretty weird encouter I had in a forest and turned it into something absolutly terrifying! Im so glad I didnt touch those milk bottles now!

also you actualy described the alter amazingly, I know in my story there wasnt any stone or anything, but sometimes while out surveying you do find some weird stones that just seem out of place. Quarts is quite common in Scotland and I once found what looked like a white obelisk made from quarts just in the middle of a forest. what was worse was I kept getting disorientated and found myself back at the same white obelisk 3 or 4 times. 

what I loved the most about Jason was he was so nonshalant about finding a dead body, even calling it an inconvieniance.

Really good episode, I really liked how you tied it all together, but still left us asking more questions! 

[spooniermist]

A'ight, wiki's updated.

Lots of interesting things here. For me, it's a grower: I didn't think that much to it first time, but each listening seemed to give more insight.

Burning Demon
The burning in the clearing reminded me of MAG 12: First Aid, where we saw Gerard Kaey and mystery man (Michael, anyone?) badly burnt without clothes being damaged. We've also seen people getting burnt without any cause in MAG 8: Burned Away with Ivo being harmed without a cause.

This has lead me to some crazy thinking: what if there's some fire spirit, or burning demon, who is involved in each of these? What if Agnes from MAG 8 was involved with the demon, binding it to the apple in the wooden box and the tree. Then it was released when the tree was destroyed. However, it was rebound to kill Gertrude in Loch Glass, which Gerard Kaey then tried to release/destroy, but partially failed, getting the demon/spirit stuck in his friend who got burnt.

Lightless Flame
Canonlongshot made me think about the Lightless flame, and what that could mean. I feel it could be linked to the demon/spirit above. If that's the case, and the open eye tattoos protected Gerard, then the Lightless Flame could be linked to the closed eye symbols of the church from Hither Green Descendents and the People's Church of the Divine Host. Maybe they're the same.

Gertrude Robinson
Something, or someone, powerful wanted her dead, which is pretty scary for Jonathan Sims. Why did they want her out of the picture? What was she protecting or hiding? I get the impression she wasn't very good at what she did, is this just Jonathan's opinion, and the reason the Archive is in disarray was that she was fighting some sort of war against various cults?

So many questions. Looking forward to the next one!

[cannonlongshot]

A thought that is fairly obvious but takes a while to notice - assuming Kaey is aligned with open eyes, and acts against Leitner's times, is it reasonable to assume that Leitner might also be involved with the Closed Eye group? Not exactly any evidence yet, but it's a possibility worth bearing in mind.

I believe a lot of occult tomes seen in MAG23 were on a bookshelf with an open eye, no? If the open eye society is in line with the creature around that tomb, maybe they aren't so benevolent.

Another thing that occurs to me: we've seen little enough of Leitner (MAG 35, really) that we haven't actually seen him do anything wrong. We know he kept arcane books, and we know the Institute destroyed them, but we also know that he thinks some things are "too powerful to be controlled". I don't know about anyone else, but I have a visceral reaction to Leitner's name that makes me think of him as a villain, mostly due to seeing what his book does. Now that I think about it, it probably won't be so simple.

Anyway, it's late and I'm sure I'll edit this stream-of-conciousness in the morning XD

[DoctorTOC]

Again, I'm wondering if this ties into the sensation of burning heat that Harold Silvana felt while investigating the passages under Leitner's old offices on Pall Mall (MAG 35). Hmmmm, didn't he also feel something that could be related to the sense of vertigo triggered in some people by Ex Altiora? (MAG 4)

[spooniermist]

Sept 26, 2016 14:34:11 GMT DoctorTOC said:

Again, I'm wondering if this ties into the sensation of burning heat that Harold Silvana felt while investigating the passages under Leitner's old offices on Pall Mall (MAG 35). Hmmmm, didn't he also feel something that could be related to the sense of vertigo triggered in some people by Ex Altiora? (MAG 4)

I've already thought about something similar, I'll just give a link rather than rehash: rustyquill.proboards.com/post/2864

[seelingkat]

Perhaps the disarray Gertrude left the archive in was a deliberate attempt to protect the Archive and its workers. The more cases that Jonathan goes through the more the evil seems to be aware of them.

[kea]

Sept 27, 2016 0:45:34 GMT seelingkat said:

Perhaps the disarray Gertrude left the archive in was a deliberate attempt to protect the Archive and its workers. The more cases that Jonathan goes through the more the evil seems to be aware of them.

That's been my suspicion. Of course, she's been stymied in that by the fact that the statements that can't be recorded - the distorted ones that Jonathan is having to read - are the relevant ones.

Something else struck me today. Those trees were about 50 years old by Jason North's reckoning...so as old as the duration that Gertrude was archivist. One of those details which could be coincidence, could be relevant or could be placed there to drive the red stringers nuts