Steeleface
Travelling Wordsmith
may or may not be a gnome
Posts: 44
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Post by Steeleface on Oct 13, 2016 9:29:44 GMT
Great end to the first season! Mystery, intrigue, some answers and even more questions! I think the one thing we can all agree on was that was definitly NOT SASHA (good call Samwise) A massive congratulations to Alex, Jonny and the rest of the Rusty Quills crew for this production! From a professional standpoint, the sound design and voice acting were brilliant. Bring on December!
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Post by Oneiros on Oct 13, 2016 9:47:33 GMT
To be honest, to me, Sasha making the statement had a different accent/voice than the old Sasha. The question is, why didn't Sims notice (in universe, of course) Different voice actor too, if I remember the credits? Yup, it's not really giving anything away to say, Lottie Broomhall played Sasha in MAG #24, #26 & #39. As to why the Archivist (or anyone else) didn't notice, well, that is indeed A Question
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Post by spooniermist on Oct 13, 2016 9:56:50 GMT
That certainly was an ending.
My issue is that we didn't find out *anything* about Jane Prentiss. What she was doing, what she was, was she still Jane, why she was destroying the books, or anything m, it feels like. There was so much build up to this finale to get some idea of what the hell she was trying to accomplish (there was literally a whole episode of her point of view, which I feel is a bit of a waste now).
The other thing is,more questions have been raised than are answered. What is Not-Sasha? why were the worms becoming a door? That's not to mention other questions that are ongoing like Gertrude's death, which has deepened, but not been answered.
This post might come off as a bit of a rant, and I don't mean it to be, but I don't think I personally enjoyed this episode as much as everyone else. Yes, the developments with Not-Sasha and Gertrude were interesting, but we didn't get any resolution of anything at all.
I think my concern is that this is what Lost did: pile mysteries on enigmas on conspiracies, but never closed off anything, or if it answered one question, it raised twenty more to replace it. I get that the unknown is scary, but I would like to be able to draw a line under something like Jane Prentiss and just say "she was this demon, that wanted this, end of".
Right now, the ongoing story elements are endless. Gertrude's murder, Michael, Sarah Baldwin, the table and Not-Sasha, the Lucas family, Breekon & Hope, and i don't feel like anything is getting clearer, just murkier. I don't want answers to everything, just for one thing to be clear, rather than opening up more perverbial cans of worms, or just closing threads without a real resolution.
I can tell that this episode was generally well received, and I don't want to bring it down. This was a good episode and made me think about many things (guys, I'm telling you, the table that spawned Not-Sasha is definitely Michael), but I didn't feel it was a great finale. I thought the penultimate episode was amazing and well done and clever. I thought this one felt like another statement, which is not a bad thing, but not like a finale. I guess I just wanted more of an explanation.
Also, finding out that Jane was dead in the first 30 seconds felt a bit disappointing. Is hoped the whole thing would be Elias making the statement and things would only be revealed slowly. As it was, it felt like the hand was shown in the first few minutes, before going into more detail.
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Samwise
Member of the Order of the Quill
Posts: 156
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Post by Samwise on Oct 13, 2016 10:22:57 GMT
I agree with what you're saying Spooniermist, I also wish we knew more about whats going on. but I think I understand why they ended the Season how they did. if we got another episode after this one with perhaps a statement from someone who knows exactly what's going on, then all this tension we got from the last 2 episodes would have less effect.
My thought is who knows all the information we want? Jane? She was not really in a position to be making any other statements, dead or not dead I don't think anything she would have said would have given us any indication of her motive.
Michael? if we got a statement with him that might help, and I hope that happens in Season 2.
I would imagine It would be quite coincidental if the day of the Prentis attack Jon would suddenly be provided with a statement that answers all the questions at once. a bit too much deus ex machina.
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Post by cannonlongshot on Oct 13, 2016 10:29:47 GMT
I have a sneaking suspicion that the door that the worms were building will be relevant. I can't remember whose theory it was, but the link between the chambers beneath Pall Mall, Leitner's books and the Hive was brought up at one point. At the time I thought a doorway to the dimension of insects seemed a little far-fetched, but now I'm not so sure...
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Post by rainbowdeity on Oct 13, 2016 11:48:47 GMT
I think my concern is that this is what Lost did: pile mysteries on enigmas on conspiracies, but never closed off anything, or if it answered one question, it raised twenty more to replace it. I get that the unknown is scary, but I would like to be able to draw a line under something like Jane Prentiss and just say "she was this demon, that wanted this, end of". I wouldn't worry about this going the way of Lost. Jonny actually knows how to write a story. Although in all seriousness I was having a chat with Jonny about exactly this a little while ago and from what I can tell (not to put words in his mouth) he pretty much agrees with you with regards to unresolved mystery. I think what I'm really saying is, I think Season 2 will be right up your street ^^
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Jonny
Member of the Order of the Quill
Host of The Magnus Archives
Turns out I was a ghost all along.
Posts: 114
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Post by Jonny on Oct 13, 2016 13:09:42 GMT
I think my concern is that this is what Lost did: pile mysteries on enigmas on conspiracies, but never closed off anything, or if it answered one question, it raised twenty more to replace it. I get that the unknown is scary, but I would like to be able to draw a line under something like Jane Prentiss and just say "she was this demon, that wanted this, end of". I wouldn't worry about this going the way of Lost. Jonny actually knows how to write a story. Although in all seriousness I was having a chat with Jonny about exactly this a little while ago and from what I can tell (not to put words in his mouth) he pretty much agrees with you with regards to unresolved mystery. I think what I'm really saying is, I think Season 2 will be right up your street ^^ I generally try not to respond to criticism, as it's very hard to avoid sounding defensive - I usually just do my best to dissect it for useful notes and move on - however this speaks to something that is going to be coming up more and more as the series progresses, so I feel it's a good idea to address it upfront (I'll also probably be covering it in the Q&A for all those who don't meticulously read every forum thread). The two main points I feel I need to be clear on are as follows: 1) It will be a long time before the "Why?" of anything is fully revealed. 2) The Magnus Archives is a world, not a single story. To unpack those a bit: 1) One of the main tightropes to be walked with this series is the one stretched between Horror and Mystery. It's a common problem with stories like this, because Horror and Mystery work FANTASTICALLY well together at the beginning, as both thrive on the unknown, but as any story goes on they become bitter enemies. If you reveal too much then the horror loses all its power: the sinister, terrifying presences simply become characters with known qualities and motivations. But if you keep too much hidden, then the audience you've taunted with shreds of mystery feels cheated, because they're never going to actually get any real answers. I have been trying to balance this, of course, but it's always going to fall a bit too far either side for some: as the series goes on it will lose a few of those who only want pure horror and feel that too much of the fear has gone from evil beings that are now too well know; and it will lose some who are only invested in the mystery, and grow frustrated with slow reveals, or that there will always be some dark corners that aren't illuminated. Now, one of the questions that will always be left as late as possible to answer is to "Why?", because knowing motives and plans is one of the quickest ways to lose the fear. It's one of the reasons most classic movie monsters have no discernible motive beyond "Murder" or (in a few nuanced cases) "Vengeance". With Jane Prentiss, the main question that is still left unanswered is the "Why?". We now know more or less who she was, what happened to her, what she was doing and how she was stopped, we just don't know why. And I'm afraid we won't for a long time. Unlike many of the other questions, the various "Why"s of the Archive are going to be a long time coming, not only because it helps preserve the horror, but also because most of them tie into a central aspect of the MA world, which is going to be gradually coming into focus over the next few seasons. If the slow burn frustrates you more than it intrigues you, then that's a completely fair reaction, although I'm obviously sad you feel that way. All I can say is that eventually you will know what is going on, and I hope you stick with us through the journey. 2) There is a story at the centre of The Magnus Archvies: the story of the Archivist himself. The rest makes up a world with many, many other stories within it. Some are the stories inherent in the statements themselves, others are stories that are hinted at across several statements, or simply lurk in the background informing others. Many of them cross over and intersect, and most of them will touch the Archivist at some point in one way or another, but they remain fundamentally different stories. What I think of as threads. Trying to tie them all together into a single narrative is only going to bring frustration, because they're not. It's not much of a spoiler to say to anyone wondering, for example, how the Lukas family fits in the story of Jane Prentiss, that they don't. Their stories are in the same world, and may conceivably brush against each other, but they're very distinct. What this means is that many of these threads will have resolution at different times, but most of them have plenty more to say. Indeed, because of the nature of statement chronology, it may be that we discover the resolution of a thread, then later discover its origin. Now, it is a fair criticism that I concentrated on setting up these threads in Season 1 almost to the exclusion of resolving any of them. This is true, and I may have been a little bit overeager to establish the depth of the world at the cost of giving enough actual closure. I'm hoping to address this a bit more in Season 2 and beyond, where threads will be resolved, as well as opened. That said, as I mentioned above, in most cases, even when they're resolved, you're going to need to wait a while until there's a definitive answer to the "Why". There will be clues, though. There are always clues. Sorry for the wall of text, but I felt your critiques deserved a proper answer as to how I'm trying to construct the series.
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Post by Alex Newall on Oct 13, 2016 19:27:06 GMT
I understand the frustration spoonier. Jonny has been far more in depth than me and it is something we intend to tackle in the mid break interview. From my perspective the goal of season 1 was to introduce the world and pose the dramatic questions, then answer them over the following seasons. If it's any consolation I also referenced Lost when we first bounced ideas around and I explicitly stated that we wanted to avoid that style of layering mysteries but never addressing them. That said, unfortunately Magnus was always intended to be a slow burn. For what it's worth though we appreciate the candid criticism. Certainly something to bear in mind as we work on season 2.
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Post by seelingkat on Oct 13, 2016 21:30:24 GMT
well, first off.. thank you for an amazing season 1. I'm so thrilled with having discovered this podcast and everyone does such amazing work on writing and voice acting. I think we all really care about the characters very much!! I'm not going to add a huge amount, but I did wonder at one thing when Jonathan was interviewing Not-Sasha. (I'll try and express it clearly) Jonathan sounded more vague and spaced out when he was interviewing NOT-Sasha. Is it possible the fractals exert a tape of camouflage that prevents people from noticing the they NOT-people. The fractals themselves seem quite hypnotic... Whatever it is clearly gets into the brain and uses all the memories or else they couldn't blend in at all and that it took the tapes to cover its tracks means it has access all areas. Is Sasha even left at all - might be quiet horrific if she is trapped watching whats going on but powerless to influence anything. Between now and 1st December i will have to wonder whats on all the tapes that were with Gertrude and who shot her. Who can we trust?
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Post by spooniermist on Oct 13, 2016 23:00:50 GMT
Well, I feel I've brought this thread down a bit, sorry everyone!
Thanks for your reply, Jonny, your post was very reassuring. You didn't sound defensive, and I'm really please with how well you've thought this through. It would be really frustrating to be so intrigued by TMA's world and for it to never go anywhere, but it sounds as if that wouldn't be the case.
For what it's worth, I totally agree with you about the balance between mystery and horror: the more the mystery is revealed, the lesser the horror, which I think a lot of horror films etc get wrong (instead opting for jump scares and other cheap horror methods, which I'm glad TMA hasn't adopted!). I came for the horror and stayed for the conspiracies and over arching stories and as long as one of them is being fulfilled with each episode, I'm happy.
Just want to be clear that TMA would have to take some pretty bad turns for me to start disliking it. Unless my theory that everyone-is-Michael is wrong, then I swear to god I'm deleting the wiki and coming for your head, Sims!
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Post by Alex Newall on Oct 14, 2016 5:25:44 GMT
Rusty Quill was set up by Michael to turn everybody into Michael.
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missnash
Officer of Many Letters
illustrating happy
Posts: 190
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Post by missnash on Oct 14, 2016 10:03:19 GMT
If I could do more than just like Jonnys master comment I would. Oddly (and quite proudly) I got this feeling about a lot of it as I listened to season one. I'm loving the excellent storytelling.
...I get how some might find it frustrating, but I'm happy we're in for the long game. So much mystery and horror to happen.
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Post by spooniermist on Oct 14, 2016 10:30:28 GMT
Okay, Wiki page is done.Holy crap, I feel like this episode is a bit of a rabbit hole: there's so much to unpick here. I'll start with Not-Sasha and the patturned table. I feel like Not-Sasha seems very similar to the students in Anatomy Class, where she seems to be being Sasha by rote rather than knowing what things mean. I'm intrigued to see how this will continue to season 2, and what she's trying to achieve. I'm still baffled by Jane Prentiss and what her motives are, and what she really is. There's no indication really of what she is, other than a Flesh Hive. Is it something supernatural, or just a parasite? I feel it's more than that, but still don't know what. I can't shake the feeling there's still so much more to uncover, and I still think there's some kind of worm-dimension that she was in touch with. I thought this originally after hearing her statement where she suggested it. Maybe the worm-door was leading there to get reinforcements? Oh Gertrude, the biggest mystery of them all. What was on those tapes in the cardboard boxes?! Clearly someone in TMI didn't want her to spill the beans. I feel like the Lucas family must be involved. There's somethign sinister about them, from Elias being scared of crossing them 'for funding reasons' and their involvement with the Tundra and the graveyard near their family home... I dunno, I wonder if they're going to be the final boss of TMI. Still no idea what their end goal is, other than to have research done into the esoteric. If Gertrude wasn't killed, why have we seen the ritual in the forest in Scotland? I wonder if someone was trying to protect her to keep her alive, and the only way to kill her wasn't with something supernatural but a few lumps of lead to the heart.
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Post by cannonlongshot on Oct 14, 2016 11:26:51 GMT
Rusty Quill was set up by Michael to turn everybody into Michael. Do you have bones in your hands? If so, you too can become Michael!
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Post by spooniermist on Oct 14, 2016 11:38:40 GMT
Also... Millbank Prison? You built your ESOTERIC ARCHIVE ON THE RUINS OF A ROBERT SMIKE BUILDING?! I have a sudden lack of sympathy. Holy crap! What a ninja spot! How did you find that out?
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